We will be posting here arguments we’ve received in e-mail. Here is the first:

Sat 10-10-2012

“Psalm 139:13-16 paints a graphic picture of the intimate involvement of God with a preborn person.”

Does not. There is no such thing as a preborn person, as we will explain. The concept of a “preborn” “person” was INVENTED in the 1960’s.

“God created David’s “inmost being,” not at birth, but before birth. David says to his Creator, “You knit me together in my mother’s womb.”

Does not in any way even imply anything more than his BODY SOUL CONTAINER. The Scripture does not say or even imply “inmost being.”

“Each person, regardless of his parentage of handicap, has not been manufactured on a cosmic assembly line, but has been personally knitted together by God in the womb.”

Man and woman create the prehuman container that is medically a parasite (dependent upon the host for survival) via sex at conception. This is science. God provides the soul, at birth, with the first breath, as He did with Adam. This is also science, if you believe the study that human bodies, at the moment of death, suddenly weigh a measurable infinitesimal amount less.

“All the days of his life have been planned out by God before any have come to be (Psalm 139:16).”

Life begins at birth. As they believed in David’s time. And Christ’s. And our time until the 1960’s.

“As a member of the human race that has rejected God, each person sinned “in Adam,“ and is therefore a sinner from his very beginning (Romans 5:12-19). David says, “Surely I was sinful at birth.”

“Then he goes back even further, back before birth to the actual beginning of his life, saying he was “sinful from the time my mother conceived me“ (Psalm 51:5). Each person has a sinful nature from the point of conception. Who but an actual person can have a sinful nature?”

A human container before it has a soul has a PHYSICAL sinful nature. Because the very DNA has been degraded, by God, at the fall. And from then on it has been a steady decline. People in Biblical times lived closed to a century. Adam and Eve were created eternal.

“Rocks and trees and animals and human organs do not have moral natures, good or bad. Morality can be ascribed only to a person. That there is a sin nature at the point of conception demonstrates that there is a person present who is capable of having such a nature.”

Sin nature goes beyond mere morality in the mind and spirit. Sin nature is an actual physical degrading of human DNA, rendering what was created immortal mortal.

“Jacob was given prominence over his twin Esau “though not yet born“ (Romans 9:11).”

Doesn’t imply that they were alive before birth, or before God breathed the breath of life into them. This is obviously talking about their FUTURE once born. Their destinies were given before birth. Destinies are not life, nor personhood. They are destinies. Destiny is merely God’s knowledge of what a human being is going to do with their free will before the fact.

“When Rebekah was pregnant with Jacob and Esau, Scriptures says, “The babies jostled each other within her“ (Genesis 25:22). The unborn are regarded as “babies” in the full sense of the term.”

What the Bible says about prehuman containers God KNEW were going to be carried to term and become PEOPLE, who He, would, at the woman’s free will decision and choosing, breathe the breath of life into them at birth, DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY APPLY TO containers who will, at the woman’s free will decision, NOT be brought to term. Because those prehuman containers WILL NEVER EXIST, NEVER receive the BREATH OF LIFE AT BIRTH, NEVER BE HUMAN, the Bible DOESN’T DEAL WITH THEM. To equate one with the other is error. GRAVE error.

“God tells Jeremiah, “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you“ (Jeremiah 1:5). He could not know Jeremiah in his mother’s womb unless Jeremiah, the person, was present in his mother’s womb.”

You JUST stated that God does not know everything that is to be. Jeremiah was going to be brought to term; God knew this before the fact, therefore GOD KNEW HIM before his procreation, which God created out of nothingness, created Jeremiah’s future body. While a blow to human ego certainly, procreation creates containers; it does not create human life. Only God creates human life, with the gift of a soul, at BIRTH FIRST BREATH and not before.

God does NOT KNOW a container that will NOT BE BROUGHT TO TERM, as HE WILL NEVER BREATHE THE BREATH OF LIFE INTO THAT CONTAINER AT BIRTH. It will never live, never be human, never have a soul, NEVER BE A PERSON, NEVER BE A HUMAN BEING. God is not wasteful of anything. And He, in His INFINITE wisdom, has given Woman the freewill choice over what container becomes human and what container will not.

“The Creator is involved in an intimate knowing relationship not only with born people, but with unborn people.”

That is a blasphemous and heretical lie, for

CANNOT BE. AND THEREFORE, IT ISN’T BECAUSE HE ISN’T A SADISTIC, WASTEFUL, SPITEFUL MONSTER. Furthermore, it is blasphemous and heretical to even suggest any such thing, WHICH IS WHY THE CONCEPT NEVER APPEARED UNTIL THE 1960’s.

“In Luke 1:41,44 there are references to the unborn John the Baptist, who was at the end of his second trimester in the womb. The word, translated baby, in these verses is the Greek word brephos. It is the same word used for the already born baby Jesus (Luke 2:12, 16) and for the babies brought to Jesus to receive His blessing (Luke 18:15-17). It is also the same word used in Acts 7:19 for the newborn babies killed by Pharaoh. To the writers of the New Testament, like the Old, whether born or unborn, a baby is simply a baby. It appears that the preborn John the Baptist responded to the presence of the preborn Jesus in His mother Mary when Jesus was probably no more than ten days beyond His conception (Luke 1:41).”

John and Jesus Christ were
EXCEPTIONS to the rule, not the RULE. Both Mary and Martha had angels appear to them announcing WHO they were carrying, so they would not TERMINATE the pregnancies as was COMMON in that day. Especially Mary, who was unmarried.

We maintain that equating all humanity with the miracles of John and Jesus Christ is blasphemous and heretical. They were
miracles, the exception to the rule.

But we will and do say this: If an angel comes to you and tells you you are bearing the Son of God or his cousin, we heartily recommend you DO NOT TERMINATE YOUR PREGNANCIES EITHER!

“The angel Gabriel told Mary that she would be “with child and give birth to a son” (Luke 1:31). In the first century, and in every century, to be pregnant is to be with child, not with that which might become a child. The Scriptures teach the psychosomatic unity of the whole person, body, soul, and spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23). Wherever there is a genetically distinct living human being, there is a living soul and spirit.”

If to be “with child” was to “have a child” THERE WOULDN’T BE A DIFFERENCE IN PHRASE.

Furthermore, 1 Thessalonians 5:23 says NOTHING OF THE SORT:

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

THIS scripture, at least, teaches NOTHING REMOTELY like “wherever there is a genetically distinct living human being, there is a living soul and spirit.”

Life begins at birth, with the first breath, when God gives us our souls. It began at first breath with Adam, even when the lump of clay looked human and had a beating heart and blood flow and human facial expressions.

Life always began at birth, life begins at birth now, and it always will begin at birth. There is no such thing as an unborn baby. There never was, there isn’t now, and there never will be.

To believe in such heretical blasphemy that would make God out to be a sadistic spiteful monster, wasting and condemning humanity and souls to horrific deaths, is to flirt with the very blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. And THE issue that “deceives the very elect” in the end times because “it makes sense to Man.”

You are certainly free to choose this wasteful, spiteful sadistic hateful “god” of
“Life begins at conception” over Jesus Christ, but do not be surprised when his true identity and nature is revealed unto you when it will be too late.